The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Komrade Kharloth on Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:55 pm

Because they made it out to be a race issue when it wasn't?

Because they cherry pick information and quotes in an effort to take a side?

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Furburt on Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:00 pm

Where, anywhere but the headline? I imagine the headline was picked for conciseness by a sub-editor, as is generally the case with newspapers. Any of the actual body of the text linking it to racism, and tenuously as that, is in the quotes from both sides.

I don't necessarily agree with sending them back or letting them in, but there's no reason to say fuck you to my favourite newspaper when all it's doing is reporting what people say.

EDIT: They have quotes from the government explaining their position, officials advising the government, quotes from the CTC, it mentions opinion polls that don't support the the arrival of the Tamils and columnists from other newspapers.

The only parts of the article I can see that use biased language or the like is where they describe the Tamil refugees as 'exhausted' and where it describes their condition as 'grim'. Other than that all it's reporting is things people have said. Of course it takes a left-wing stance on the issue, because it's a left wing newspaper, the Daily Mail would do the exact same thing but reversed. However, as I said, at no point do they make untrue assertions or throw their own opinion into the mix.

And as I know from working in a newspaper, if you're writing about an issue that a good amount of people are passionate about, by definition you are cherry-picking their opinions to whatever sells the most newspapers.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Komrade Kharloth on Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:15 pm

" He has threatened to seek a change in the law to deal with further refugees"

Threatened? Isn't that a lovely, neutral word.

"...Tamil asylum seekers has sparked an angry debate about racism that has divided national opinion."

Except that it wasn't a racial issue, at all.

"The Sri Lankan government has a huge interest in portraying them this
way rather than as victims of a genocidal civil war. Some of those on
board are victims of torture and have shrapnel wounds."

About the (correct) belief that the ship was carrying members of terrorist organizations, it decided to portray such concerns as bullshit by the Sri Lanka gov't and that they were all poor refugees.

""Why such rage directed at such a minuscule group?" asked
columnist Stephen Hume in the Vancouver Sun. "Perhaps it's because they
aren't white ... How we respond to a few Tamils seeking safety and a
future for their children says far more about us than it does about them"

WACISM

"This provoked a furious reaction. "Gee, could it be that we are sick of
being played for Patsies?" was one of the milder responses from readers."

So, they portray those who oppose the refugees landing as furious, angry (and by extension, irrational) and then some?

""Canada is a very compassionate country but people were not very well informed at the time this poll was taken."

So, those that oppose the refugees are misinformed because they don't support the opposite opinion?


Yes, they're quotes but the Guardian has cherrypicked ones that support the argument of those that support them landing, showing them in a somewhat positive light, while portraying those that oppose it in a not-so-positive light.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Mr. Wiggles on Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:23 pm

Ehh... The Graundiad ain't all that bad. Sure I don't read it because it's a bit too slanted too the left for me but it's a lot less biased than any other British paper. Your choices are: mildly left, far right, right and ignorant or slight right with a hint of Murdoch.

Which is why I read the Metro! It may be the most prone to bias but it's only a secondary source of news for me plus they do a ruddy good job of copying other people's article!

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Mr. Wiggles on Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:31 pm

EDIT After reading that article, I'm going to have to agree with Khar Khar. The first half is pure sob story. Terrorist links are not mentioned until half way through and Canada is treated like scum of the earth for forcing Jews back to Nazi Germany. Those with opposing opinions are more or less portayed as out right ignorant and racist EG The uncredited quote "You might sing a different song if your community was flooded with Hindus, Vietnamese, etc who brought such worthy skills with them as drive-by shootings, drug wars, murder of their own wives and daughters," read another.

Had to laugh at the idea of a Hindu drug war.

Then again, I think The Guardian has always been far better when it comes to reporting domestic incidents. And over all I much prefer the BBC to any of the broadsheets.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Furburt on Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:35 pm

Komrade Kharloth wrote:


Yes, they're quotes but the Guardian has cherrypicked ones that support the argument of those that support them landing, showing them in a somewhat positive light, while portraying those that oppose it in a not-so-positive light.

That's what newspapers do. Any newspaper does this, no matter what their ideological stance. if you can find me a newspaper that doesn't, I'll be truly amazed.

On a practical level, I doubt people who strongly support the Canadian government on this issue are particularly going to want to speak to a paper like the Guardian. The reason those dramatic right-wing quotes were chosen was precisely that, they're dramatic, and thus they increase the amount of traffic, comments and view. And who's to say that these immigrants won't engage in "drive-by shootings, drug wars, murder of their own wives and daughters."?

Of course, the Guardian's liberal leftie readership won't agree with them, but why do you care? They were going to disagree whether or not the Guardian told them to, that's the nature of their ideology.

My point essentially is, is that I agree there is a bias, but it's a very mild one. I mean, look at the way you described it "showing them in a somewhat positive light, while portraying those that oppose it in a not-so-positive light."

That doesn't sound very 'all-or-nothing' to me. While the paper is taking a left-wing stance on the issue, if it's not actively mediating in the debate (Which is isn't), fabricating quotes or facts for its own gain (Can't see any), or editorializing (This seems otherwise a standard news article), then it's not guilty of doing things that literally every other media organisation does.

If you do really have a problem with it, I'd suggest writing to their letters page.

letters@guardian.co.uk

I've written before and it's been published, and there's usually plenty of conflicting opinions on show.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Furburt on Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:37 pm

@Wiggles: That thing about the Jews being sent back is both relevant and timely though, which means under the typical newsworthiness criteria (relevance, timeliness, human interest, drama/conflict, proximity) it probably would have been included even if the paper was espousing a right-wing point of view. Fills column inches, you know.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Furburt on Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:38 pm

Anyway, I'm afraid I cannot engage in any further productive debate, for I must go and get stoned. I've said me piece anyway.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Mr. Wiggles on Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:48 pm

Furburt wrote:Anyway, I'm afraid I cannot engage in any further productive debate, for I must go and get stoned. I've said me piece anyway.

THEN WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO ROLL YOUR JOINT WITH?

Seriously: Furburt makes a good point. My musings are concluded.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by MilkyFresh on Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:27 am

DID YOU KNOW?

Pakkis can withstand enormous pressure due to their sturdy physiological make up, and could theoretically survive on Jupiter with no difficulty. They cannot, however, traverse outer space as they are too lazy.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Pararaptor on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:12 am

New South Wales is getting fucked up by bushfires.

It's ridiculous.
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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by MilkyFresh on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:00 am

What's the damage? I have no news source

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Pararaptor on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:23 am

http://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/dsp_content.cfm?cat_id=683

A boatload. More than a few are out of control as well.

1 mil in property damage so far.
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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Hubilub on Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:25 pm

The robber who got shot in the head is dead now. This is now an even bigger controversy.

I don't fucking get it. The robbers had fucking AKs, and had gotten away with the robbery had it not been for the miraculous arrival of those two officers (they were on a stake-out mission for something different, other than them there were no other officers in the area). The police try to stop the robbery, one of the idiot robbers with an AK gets shot in the head (not on purpose, police officers in Sweden are trained to shoot at limbs, they have expanding bullets for that very purpose), and now it's a scandal, even though the cop did everything he should have done.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Xandy on Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:30 pm

Your people have become overly-sensitive pussies.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by MilkyFresh on Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:27 pm

Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure police in Australia aren't allowed to fire a shot without intending to kill somebody. No warning shots or limb shots or anything like that.
I think it's to avoid killing somebody when it was only appropriate to kneecap them.

Could be wrong, but I've heard that.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Komrade Kharloth on Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:35 pm

I assumed that it was the standard procedure for police officers in western countries, if the situation has gone to the point where they need to shoot the suspect, it's to kill not to wound, you want the suspect to cease to be a threat and the quickest way to do that is an instant-kill shot.

The whole 'shoot to wound' thing is a myth by and large, if you shoot a person in the leg, you stand a big chance of rupturing a huge artery, or shattering a section of bone, releasing marrow and bone fragments into the blood stream (which will kill you when it hits your heart). Not to mention it still leaves the suspect alive, able to shoot and panicked.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by MilkyFresh on Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:41 pm


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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Komrade Kharloth on Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:57 pm

I don't get it.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Furburt on Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:58 pm

SHOOT RYAN TO KILL

Also, things be kicking off in Kashmir again. Thought that horse was long dead.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Komrade Kharloth on Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:00 pm

For two nations that could reduce each other to ash, India and Pakistan sure do like fucking with one another.

I support India in any case.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Furburt on Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:01 pm

Good for you.

Perhaps they'll both blow away all their corruption. With nuclear weapons.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Komrade Kharloth on Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:04 pm

Perhaps.

And then the Sikhs rule over all of them, and the area enters a new golden age.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by MilkyFresh on Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:04 pm


a new golden age

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Furburt on Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:06 pm

The new Mughal emperor.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Xandy on Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:04 pm

Sikhs are so fucking cool.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Furburt on Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:51 pm

I have a sudden desire to make a world map using a template highlighting places where a major conflict could potentially break out in the next 10-15 years.

The whimsical life of me

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Mr. Wiggles on Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:03 pm

Don't know if anyone has heard about the scandal involving UKIP's recently sacked Youth Officer but well there's more to it than meets the eye.

Original article: HERE!

Essentially, the liberal media to use a horrible term, as well as the BBC and many others have released articles critiquing UKIP for being hypocritical over its "freethinkers" label. The idea being that each member is allowed his own view given that it his labelled as his own and not that of the party. Olly Neville voiced his support for gay marriage live on radio and was subsequently chastised and sacked in a series of emails as well as a some harsh comments from other UKIP members calling him "an idiot" and "politically inept". This has been used to paint UKIP as a homophobic party full of vitriolic hatemongers. He claims the situation is unfair as Farage is aloud to make his own statements on drugs and prostitution.

The Reality:
http://order-order.com/2013/01/09/ukip-former-chairman-i-agree-with-nick-griffin-sources-gay-marriage-was-tip-of-iceberg/

What Mr. Neville neglects to mention is his support for Nick Griffin, leader of the BNP, as well as his support for bestiality and necrophilia. The truth is that his superiors were fed up of him sharing his own opinions rather than that of the party he supported. Quoted from above: UKIP sources say that a member holding different views from the party “is one thing, but having an office holder defending bestiality, incest and the BNP is quite another”.

It pisses me off how badly reported this has been, it's Kony 2012/ Cut4Bieber all over again. It saddens me that the internet is the only place you can find reliable news these days.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Furburt on Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:07 pm

I originally thought Ukip was like U-Haul but for beds. Nigel Farage is the UK's premium bed transporter.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Katzenjammer on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:05 pm

Out of interest what are Farage's views on drugs and prostitution?

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Mr. Wiggles on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:38 pm

Well, he like to think of himself as Libertarian if I'm not mistaken. So presumably pro-choice anti- government intervention.

‘I have a feeling that prohibition in this whole area simply isn't working. Every year we say that we are going to fight the war on drugs harder than we have fought it the year before. And I think this is one of those areas of life, and, whilst people may find this distasteful, I think we need a proper full Royal Commission on this whole area of drugs to investigate whether perhaps life might be better for millions of people living on council estates that are dominated by the drugs dealers, that are dominated by the crime that surrounds, the money that people raise, to get these drugs, let's find out through a Royal Commission whether perhaps we should decriminalise drugs, whether we should license them, license the users, and sell them at Boots - because frankly if you add up the costs of drugs to society the big problem is the fact that they're criminal and everything that goes with that. And I think there is an argument that says if we decriminalised it we would make the lives of millions of people far better than they are today.’


‘The policy's failing. More and more people are taking drugs, the cost goes up every year, we are losing the war on drugs, let's face up to that.’

Although....

"Mr Farage recently clarified in an interview, that if a Royal Commission found that making certain drugs legal was a bad thing, then he would respect that decision, and would not persue a policy of make their usage or sale legal. He also acknowledged much of his party was against his own personal views on the matter."

All I can find on prostitution is this.

"We need sound money as a bedrock of a successful economy allied with social freedoms that like Farage says, 'fights for the nation's cross-dressers, swingers, naturists, prostitutes, adult nappy-wearers, consensual cannibals and the like.' "

and this "Yes I am a libertarian. I think prostitution, for instance, should be decriminalised and regulated. I feel that about drugs too. I am opposed to the hunting ban and the smoking ban, too. What have they to do with government?"

Then again his party offers mixed support on this. Some are best described as "nutters" in Farage's own words. So the likelihood of these becoming policy is really rather difficult to predict.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Furburt on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:41 pm

The guy who got ousted apparently supported possible legalisation of drugs as well as gay marriage, and apparently all his statements defied party policy, so we can assume that they're not in favour of legalisation.
However, Farage himself said the following 3 years ago.

Spoiler:
Prohibition in this whole area simply isn't working... Whilst people
may find this distasteful, I think we need a proper full Royal
Commission on this whole area of drugs... Let's find out through a Royal
Commission whether perhaps we should decriminalise drugs, whether we
should license them, license the users and sell them at Boots... I think
there is an argument that says that if we decriminalised it, we'd make
the lives of millions of people far better than they are today.

And around the same time, one of their representatives in a Q and A about their science policies answered a question from David Nutt (The Nuttmeister) in the following way. This is a summing up:

"Ukip's drugs policy is somewhat more liberal than that of the present
government. A distinction would be made between medical use and
recreational use, with restrictions placed on the sale and marketing of
drugs for the latter. The severity of the restriction would, unlike the
present system, be based on scientific evidence."
So they're less fingers-in-ears ignorant of the facts than both labour and the tories have proven to be on drugs, but they'll probably drop their more libertarian policies like that if they're trying to take the mainstream.

They do have some fucked up ideas on alternative medicine though. They seem to think that every single medicine should be retested by their own panel for effectiveness, even if it's totally proven to work. They don't exactly say how they're going to test it either.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Furburt on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:42 pm

Big bag of quotes from Marcus and Fabian! See our touring show!

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Mr. Wiggles on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:48 pm

"Leading cause of cancer" according to The Daily Mail.

Described as " A bunch of hand signs" by some deaf woman.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Mr. Wiggles on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:48 pm

Also I think it is really a secondary policy at best. Even if they got into a coalition which is possible, I think Farage would focus on Europe, where his party has the most common ground, over issues like this.

Then again, if he gets his way with Europe I think this could well become a more important campaign point.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Furburt on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:55 pm

Somehow I doubt it. I'd say it's just in there to distinguish from the main two parties, which Ukip wants to do at all points. I'd say they'd soften considerably if forced into coalition.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Mr. Wiggles on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:17 pm

Can you vote from abroad? I think out of all the shit bags floating around at the moment, UKIP is one of the few party that actually speaks to me. I don't really have a position on the EU but I don't think withdrawing from it would have particularly severe implications, although I am ignorant to any arguments from either side of the discussion.

Alternatively, it's Labour and Dickhead Ed, the Tories and Dodgy Dave or Lib Dems and No Good Nick. Maybe if they had Vince Cable as leader or if Ed Balls led Labour but as it is more likely that we all are wiped out with nuclear war, I think UKIP makes most sense.

@Furburt: True although Clegg has also called for a commission if he wins the next election. I like to think Farage would not be tamed by Labour or Lib Dems (He already said no deals with the Tories) but it is hard to say whether or not it would happen. Clegg showed promise but that didn't exactly turn out golden. The thing is Farage is not really a career politician and as a result far more outspoken than most British politicians so I like to think he wouldn't be happy to be sidelined so much. I also don't think that the Lib Dems have the integrity not to be sidelined in any coalition.

However, whilst I don't appreciate the current Labour cabinet, I could certainly see Farage being sidelined if they were to form a coalition. Then again I think they lack the common ground.

My final musing is that Farage strikes me as a politician who would happily withdraw his party from any coalition, if he felt he wasn't getting his way.

Potentially, the only real potential coalition I could foresee involving UKIP would comprise of Lib Dems and possibly some Tory refugees.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Furburt on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:18 am

I wouldn't go for Ukip by itself, they have some good ideas but I don't agree with their immigration polices. However, a coalition of the lib dems, Ukip and independents I think would be a marvelous idea. The Lib Dems would keep the more zany right-wing ideas of Ukip in check, as Ukip would do for the Lib Dems knee-jerk nancyism.
Both parties are progressive and wouldn't have the weight of an established party leaning on them and making them look irrelevant.

There's been talk of a similar thing over here with Sinn Fein, Labour, the Greens and the indos getting into bed with each other. I'm all for it, democracy is really stagnating in the first world these days. America most of all.

And I'm not sure if you're asking me, but apparently I can vote in British elections if I'm resident there, I don't have to be a citizen. I could even run. The perks of the Anglo-Irish agreement.

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Mr. Wiggles on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:22 am

I have to agree with you there. That would be a tremendous idea. Although, the compromising would infuriate somebody eventually. Large coalitons are just too dodgy, I think. Besides FPTP would put a dampener on the possibilities of that situation occurring.

And I was just asking generally, as I'm going to be in China come next election. That is very interesting that you can vote indeed! Which constituency can you vote for?

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Re: The News Thread! 3rd Edition!

Post by Furburt on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:29 am

I assume whichever one I'm resident in. It doesn't say how long you have to be resident in it though.

If you're in China I think you can do voting by proxy, where you nominate a person to cast a vote for you.

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