Political debate on omegle

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Political debate on omegle

Post by MilkyFresh on Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:25 pm

Spoiler:
You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!

You and the stranger both like politics.

You: hey there

Stranger: hello

You: politics huh? this'll probably be more interesting than flicking through the video chat until i get boobs

Stranger: well

Stranger: and a bunch of dicks

You: mostly dicks

You: where do you stand politically?

Stranger: im for free market

Stranger: true democracy

Stranger: and control of the rich ones

You: control of the rich ones? how so

Stranger: yeah

You: i was with you until there

Stranger: nowadays its the middle class playing the role of milking cow

Stranger: in a society we need someone like

Stranger: that

Stranger: for security

Stranger: for bad times

You: i disagree, i think that the free market should go more or less unrestricted, i don't believe we should punish people for making money. there should be (and are) regulations to prevent the monopolization of the market, but i don't think the government should intervene beyond that

Stranger: not for making money

Stranger: and not punish

Stranger: imo

Stranger: having something is a luxury

Stranger: and a responsibility

Stranger: that would be their responsibility

Stranger: to pay for what they have

Stranger: u have less

Stranger: u pay less

Stranger: u have more u pay adequately more

You: so a taxation system based on percentage of annual income?

Stranger: yes

Stranger: straightly

Stranger: but

Stranger: i wouldnt tax companies

Stranger: and their progress if they made any

Stranger: i mean

Stranger: investments

Stranger: only individuals

Stranger: including the owners of such companies

You: i don't know if i agree. i do support income percentage based fines though, people shouldn't be billed more than they can afford.

You: overall i'm for

Stranger: sure

You: the minimisation of government overall, which would lead inevitably to lower taxes for everybody

Stranger: not more than they can afford

Stranger: in a country ruled by all

Stranger: all the people would set these limits

Stranger: advised by those who know better

You: what do you mean a country ruled by all?

Stranger: i mean

Stranger: an internet democracy

Stranger: in which everyone has a vote to decide abt anything

Stranger: to introduce issues too

You: a system where everybody votes on every bill, without parliament?

Stranger: yes

You: i agree entirely

You: i think politicians should exist to propose issues that the public votes on

Stranger: yes

You: and political parties should be abolished, politicians should stand alone

Stranger: but they shouldnt be payed for it

Stranger: only specialists should be payed to present research

Stranger: and foretell things

Stranger: but these people

Stranger: know nothing abt it

You: what would their incentive be to run for government without money?

Stranger: thats the point

Stranger: cuz if u wanna change sth for real

Stranger: its bec it involves u

Stranger: and in their case

Stranger: having money stolen from us

Stranger: they dont need any change

Stranger: this profession has no sense

You: what about the possibility that the only people who would put themselves up for election would be people financially secure enough to have the free time to run? the "common man" would be too busy working

Stranger: i dont think this is a problem

Stranger: the problem is people dont want to decide

Stranger: they want others to think for them

Stranger: cuz they were brought up that way

You: that's true, people seem to treat political parties like sports teams

You: you know

Stranger: but its a matter of proper education

You: " i vote for team blue, because they're the good guys"

Stranger: yeah

Stranger: thats right

Stranger: but in fact the system creates such illusions

Stranger: cuz u choose people

Stranger: who will do what they want in fact

Stranger: its ridiculous

Stranger: its different from monarchy only cuz u choose those who will have a holiday time for a couple of years

You: i think the problem with the system is that political parties force politicians to compromise, to satisfy the rest of their party. it makes everybody a moderate. we need a system composed entirely of independent politicians, it'll give us far more variety in terms of political views

Stranger: yeah

Stranger: somehow i agree

Stranger: but politician as a trade

Stranger: im against

You: i don't know where you live, but in australia we have a serious problem there. out two main political parties, the only ones likely to get elected, hardly differ from each other philosophically

Stranger: unless everyone is a politician

Stranger: im from poland

Stranger: we have lots of parties here

Stranger: every election u have new ones created

Stranger: the difference?

Stranger: some are really fucking stupid

Stranger: some r also stupid but they keep politeness i would say

Stranger: and thats abt it

You: what about issues that most people wouldn't be able to understand, economics for instance? and should there be a system to prevent public backlash that could cause serious international incidents? for instance: germany insults our prime minister, the population votes to bomb them the next day

Stranger: well

Stranger: yeah

Stranger: ure right abt it

Stranger: thats y we should have our people aware of things

Stranger: they should be interested in what s around them

Stranger: as u suggested they might cause some harm

You: it would be a necessity to integrate politics into education a whole lot more. the majority of people would need to understand complex issues

Stranger: but i think they wont do more than its been done until now

Stranger: yes

Stranger: definitely

Stranger: ill give one example from poland

Stranger: after 9.11 in the us

Stranger: our gov agreed to go to iraq

Stranger: and they sent our troops there

Stranger: but 70% of people here

Stranger: were against

Stranger: only abt 15 were for

You: that sort of thing should never be able to happen, it was probably a similar percentage here

Stranger: in many more cases even being not really filled with information

Stranger: people choose the right thing

Stranger: i mean the least harmful

Stranger: and being able to decide

You: i think the problem with the system we're talking about

Stranger: they will never be puppets of any influencial powers

You: is that political parties would form anyway, in a different way. groups of people would present themselves as public advisers, dumbing down issues enough for the layperson to understand and mixing their own agendas in with it

Stranger: yes

Stranger: they will

Stranger: there will be groups of people showing this or that opinion

Stranger: and thats good

Stranger: we need media

Stranger: to present them all

You: that's true

Stranger: and freedom to choose from them

Stranger: but

Stranger: the final decision

Stranger: will be ours

You: you're right, it isn't really an issue. well, not to anywhere near the same degree that political parties are now

Stranger: yeah

Stranger: and it does look scary

Stranger: cuz we ll all have the power

Stranger: its seems unpredictable

Stranger: thats y i think no one really introduced it yet anywhere

Stranger: cuz its not very popular

Stranger: to be an individual in this world

Stranger: but we have to change it

Stranger: cuz we re only making the same mistakes not doing so

Stranger: if u exclude technological progress

Stranger: that is also controled

Stranger: and not let to really expand

Stranger: ull have the same mentality as from thousands of years ago

You: this has been probably the best discussion i've ever had on omegle, but i have to go now

You: peace

Stranger: ok Smile

Stranger: the same here

Stranger: take care

You have disconnected.
Any thoughts people?

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Re: Political debate on omegle

Post by GrinningManiac on Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:05 pm

As a Brit I find it ludicrous every time other countries refer to the working class as "Middle Class". Over here the Middle Class are the Rich Ones.

"Stranger: an internet democracy

Stranger: in which everyone has a vote to decide abt anything

Stranger: to introduce issues too"


I assume he's talking about Direct Democracy - the pure, old variant of Greek demokratikos wherein people met in the city square and argued about what to do. The reason we don't have this any more is because there are too many people. Then again maybe one day the internet will be reliable and secure enough to allow for a literal public forum. The word "forum" would come full circle. That'd be neat.

I completely agree that political parties foster cultures where opinions are diluted until they fit the party line. I mean for f*ck's sake in Britain we have things called Party Whips who are required to make sure politicians vote according to party wishes. If a vote is a One Whip vote then you can vote however you please but if it's a Three Whip vote you better vote for what Milliband/Cameron wants or you'll have the carpet pulled out from under your feet.

Political parties create an atmosphere where you vote for Labour because it's the thing you vote for, not because you're aware of what Labour's saying this time round or what your local candidates or even the potential Prime Minister actually wants to do with the country.

I find it kinda funny how he says "We'll have the same mentality as from thousands of years ago" when in actuality everything the two of you argued was around in Athens and suchlike thousands of years ago.


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Re: Political debate on omegle

Post by MilkyFresh on Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:10 pm

I don't think the internet would need to serve as an official public forum, just a place to place your votes. It would obviously need to be a very, very secure website though. Idunno if we're capable of that.
If not the internet, it'd just mean going to the voting booths a lot more often.

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Re: Political debate on omegle

Post by MilkyFresh on Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:44 pm

More food for thought.
Spoiler:
You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!

You and the stranger both like politics.

You: hey

You: politics huh? where do you stand?

Stranger: I stand on the shoulders of people braver and wiser than I Smile

You: haha, anybody specific?

Stranger: Quite a few Very Happy one is Rosa PArks Very Happy

You: civil rights woman, right?

Stranger: Yup

Stranger: That's one thing she did, yeah

Stranger: What about you?

You: a fair few as well, personally i'd call myself a libertarian

Stranger: Of the AMerican capitalise Gary Johnson variety?

You: yep, of the gary johnson variety.
my political views are pretty complicated, but if i was an american voter i'd vote for johnson

Stranger: So you hate all the modern achievements in economic justice?

You: what do you mean by economic justice?

Stranger: As in the regulations of capitalism

Stranger: So for exampel minimum wage, maximum working hours

Stranger: Restrictions of child labour, etc.

You: of course not. being a libertarian does not mean you advocate unfair working conditions and child labour

You: i do believe strongly in the free market though, and the minimisation of government

You: but not to that extent. i'm not an anarchist

Stranger: So you do believe in regulating the economy?

You: i believe in putting restrictions in place to prevent the monopolization of the market, which already exist, but beyond that, no.

Stranger: Why would you need to do that?

You: to prevent one company from buying out every other company and completely controlling the market

Stranger: But you're in favour of a free market?

Stranger: IF you're in favour of a free market and that was the natural consequence of a free market, why would you stop it?

You: because a company shouldn't have that degree of control over the economy. if the free market consists entirely of one company then it isn't a free market anymore

You: politics isn't an "all or nothing" situation

Stranger: So what specifically about a free market is it that you like, if it's noot just for its own sake?

You: i just don't think that the government has any place intervening in the market to the extent that it does today. we live in a capitalist society and we should let it be a capitalist society, not a society where we punish people for making money

Stranger: Why should we live in a capitalist society?

You: because it's the best option. what would you propose?

Stranger: Well that's your opinion, not a fact.

You: I know that.

You: What is your opinion?

Stranger: I personally don't see the advantage in putting a huge sector of power into private unaccountable hands

Stranger: So for example we don't put government into private hands, we put into public hands where it is accountable.

Stranger: At least in theory. But no matter who corrupted you see government and politics, you have more control over what the government does than what the economy looks like if you don't have the ability to control the economy.

Stranger: I think if you don't actually have the ability to choose how to use the resources of your land, you're not free.

Stranger: And I think libertarians and free-market enthusiasts ignore the overwhelming evidence that privatre control of the economy is just as bad a tyranny as having a massive government that acts tyrannically.

You: I think that if companies doesn't the the ability to choose how they run their companies, they aren't free.

Stranger: And on a practical level, libertarian values would destroy the planet quicker than we are doing already.

Stranger: What do you mean though by that?

Stranger: Do you mean the owners of the company or the employees?

You: with regulations to prevent monopolization no company would have control of the economy. you're right about the environment though, it's a problem

You: i mean the owners

Stranger: IF you think control should be rationed by wealth you're pissing in the face of every kind of liberal thinking since and including Adam Smith.

Stranger: So why should rich people run the economy?

You: where did you pull that from? i don't.

Stranger: I mean if you have a principalled case against democracy, please tell me it.

Stranger: You jsut said the owners shoudl run the company

You: let me explain to you my ideal government, it's more complicated than just pure libertarianism

Stranger: And you mean the owners as in shareholders, which are overwhelmingly rich people.

Stranger: OK.

You: i would promote a system of direct democracy, similar to ancient greece, where the public has a chance to vote on every bill that is passed. i would abolish political parties, and politicians would all be independent. the PM would exist to propose legislature for the public to vote on.

Stranger: What if people voted to have a socialist or anti-capitalist economy?

You: then that's what it would be. i wouldn't agree with it personally, but it would be disgusting to force my opinions on a population that disagreed. the only thing that would be set in stone would be the system itself, of direct democracy.

Stranger: A democratic libertarian Smile nice.

Stranger: Where are you from

Stranger: ?

Stranger: gtg sorry Sad

You: i believe strongly in my libertarian views, but democracy is far, far more important than that. i'm from australia

You: bye

Stranger: Nice chatting to you.

You: you too

You have disconnected.
I don't know why I never thought to put "politics" in common interests before, this is great.

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Re: Political debate on omegle

Post by Hubilub on Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:55 pm

TL;DR most of it. All I saw was

"I am for free market, except I'm not really."

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Re: Political debate on omegle

Post by GrinningManiac on Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:37 pm

What do you mean by that, Hub? He seems pretty for it.


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Re: Political debate on omegle

Post by MilkyFresh on Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:42 am

I am also confused. Perhaps you should have read it

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Re: Political debate on omegle

Post by Hubilub on Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:30 am

It is true I must have missed something. All I read was that he was for free market, true democracy, and control of the rich ones, the final part not really mixing with the other two. But hey, he probably explained it later

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Re: Political debate on omegle

Post by ggggggggggg on Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:52 pm

That was the weirdest omegle conversation I've ever seen. It was too normal.

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Re: Political debate on omegle

Post by Komrade Kharloth on Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:53 pm

Hubilub wrote:It is true I must have missed something. All I read was that he was for free market, true democracy, and control of the rich ones, the final part not really mixing with the other two. But hey, he probably explained it later
I think it was something about having measures the prevent one corporation from monopolizing the market.

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Re: Political debate on omegle

Post by Hubilub on Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:08 pm

Which is bullshit, because in a truly laissez faire economy, corporations can't have a monopoly. Tell me, how do corporations get monopolies? With the help of the government. With copyright laws, or government funding, or the government intervening with a rival business and making it harder for them to compete.

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Re: Political debate on omegle

Post by Hubilub on Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:22 pm

For example, the Apple vs Samsung story. The US court ruled that Samsung must pay Apple 1 Billion dollars for copyright infringement. But I, as both an experienced iPhone and Galaxy user, can tell you that though there are similarities, Samsung still makes the superior phone, and as a consumer I consider it to be much better. But the government have taken the power from the consumers to vote with their money on which phone they want

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Re: Political debate on omegle

Post by Hubilub on Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:52 pm

Here in Sweden, it has recently become legal for there to be independent non-government run pharmacists. However, because there has been such government dominance, they still have a monopoly even though they're not enforcing it by law.

Government interference is what leads to monopolies.

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Re: Political debate on omegle

Post by Vallorn on Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:15 pm

Hubilub wrote:Here in Sweden, it has recently become legal for there to be independent non-government run pharmacists. However, because there has been such government dominance, they still have a monopoly even though they're not enforcing it by law.

Government interference is what leads to monopolies.
You can see something similar to that pharmacists thing with the privatizations in the UK during the 80s. The sales went reasonably well but with things like the train system or water its difficult to get true competition. Then of course Labour come along and start poking at the free parts of the market with a sharp stick for 13 years.
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